while we are on the subject

I just want to make a disclaimer, the reason why I blog, is to document the journey me and my family are on. I am not trying to sway people's opinions.... if by chance you are affected by what I write, then I hope it is in a good way...even if you don't agree if I have challenged your thinking then I think I have done well! I am also not saying that "church" is bad.... not all are good but I am not attacking the church, I am wanting to challenge some thinking!! cuz that's who I am! and it is the process that I am on, where I am in my journey not where I think you should be in yours! having said all that I enjoy all comments, even ones that disagree with me!

tithing.... a big one! how to tackle that? I don't have all the answers. I do know you don't have to belong to a local church in order to tithe or give! I believe we are called to be givers, no question about that. I do question if it is being done because you are afraid of loosing God's blessings! or closing the windows of heaven (I have heard that more than once!) if you don't.... to me, that is law! we are no longer under the law. You cannot lose what you did not earn. There are consequences to our actions for sure but I never want to give out of fear of the Lord not blessing me! never!! I don't even believe it has to be a certain amount.... I know gasp how could I say that! it's what I honestly believe. Do you give 10% off your gross or your net? how does it all get designated?? I don't know, in the Bible in the first body of Christ they didn't have buildings with overhead and paid positions... were the needs met because of giving? I believe most likely so...Paul had to talk to some about giving so I am assuming they didn't all have it right! do any of us? I believe it is more important to give where and how the Father directs you... you have to be listening and obedient!! and I haven't always been so... are you giving to make your own needs met or for your own gain? or for the kingdom? no matter, it is important to give, no doubt about it, I just don't think there is a formula or percentage to it, I think it has to come from the heart in obedience out of love of the Father. The further I go in my journey the more I am convinced that the only thing the Father demands is love.... and then He doesn't because again He cannot do anything outside of love since He IS love! Love is not forceful! and He loves us even when we don't yet return that love! what is love then?

1 Corinthians 13:4 (Amplified Bible)

4 Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy, is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily.

so that's part of it. What else does love mean?


BehavenPaPa said…
Well La you've opened up a discussion that needs to be looked into deeply.
IT is hard for many to move from religious thinking to Holy Spirit (Grace) thinking. I surmise that is why He instructed us to renew our minds. The part God put into play in this world is "Seed Time and Harvest" and "As a man (woman) purposes in his (her) heart, let them give, not grudgingly, or of necessity:" One should read from verse 6 to 11 in Chapter 9 of II Corinthians. It is Gods plan for man to live a blessed life and He made provision in the earth for man to live that way. There is no fear tactic here but one of Love for His children. So He gave us a plan and it works for anyone, even for those who have not accepted Him. It would be a lie to say (and we are now talking only about finances) that non-believers will not receive increase if they purpose in their hearts to give and carry out the act of giving. There are people the world over who are extremely rich and still deny the Lordship of Jesus. Some have horded but many have given to help the needy, etc.
The principals work - seed time and harvest just like gravity works. It just does because it was established to work by a Loving Father who wanted a family.
Enough for now, and I encourage everyone reading this Blog to "Consider their ways, leaning not unto their own understanding but seeking after and listening to hear the voice of the inner man - the spirit - showing and leading them into all truth.
BehavenPaPa said…
I'm back to say - "now I know where you get the love to expound on matters" To want to straighten things out. To get it right.
To rid oneself of dirty religious laundry. To really know your Father in Heaven. To have a relationship that no-one - nobody can take because it is so real, you know that you know, He loves you.
And I do too - Big much!
Lala's world said…
I love you too dad...BIG MUCH
Just Me said…
You are a braver woman than I am, to tackle tithing on your blog! Go Lise!! I just blogged on honoring your husband - so I guess I'm brave too! Anwyays...good subject...One thing I think helps us all in this subject is, it's not about the 10% we give..it's about the 90% we get to keep! Tithing to me, is spiritual warfare. Everytime I give, I am declaring that my God supplies/provides for me! I give the spirit of lack, a good punch, everytime I give, tithe, sow, into someone, something, other than myself. We give to honor him...to declare we know where we get our provison from! It's a DECLARATION!! I'm cared for...I am not afraid...And of course there is blessing in that - because we are free! There is a GREAT book out by Craig Hill called, "Wealth, Riches and Finances"...awesome book. Makes you see your finances in a whole new way! Check it out!
Anyways..missing you...
Elle*Bee said…
Our church strongly encourages us to share our "time, talent and treasure." Sometimes I share more treasure, sometimes I give more time or talent.

I think what's important isn't so much the amount one gives, but rather how freely and lovingly one gives.
MugwumpMom said…
It seems to me that when Paul talked about giving it was always to the poor - the collections that he encouraged the believers in different cities to put together to help the persecuted brothers and sisters in Jeruselem - he told the Corinthians to set an amount aside each week, that the elders would come collect to take with them when they went to Jeruselem - giving in the Greek scriptures was always about the poor, the needy, the widow, the orphan and the persecuted...and the people gave out of love and a desire to serve. I totally agree with you that when people give out of the motivation that they will be rewarded, their giving is for selfish purposes, and has more to do with the cause and affect of the law, or scoring "god" points, then it has to do with love....
Personally, I like the idea of "tithing" directly to those in need...as in, pray each month and ask Father, "to whom shall I give Your gift to this time?" hmmmmmmm I like that idea...will have to think on that some more.
Lala's world said…
this past year and a half J and I have been blessed repeatedly by people who were led to give to us... even now there is someone who felt the Lord telling her to give to us monthly until we don't need it anymore... it is such a blessing and such a lesson and I can't wait to be able to do it to others in the same way.... J and I have over the years given a lot of our time and $ and talents... one thing I did give a lot of was clothes and it is the one thing I probably receive the most!! I am constantly blessed with boxes of clothes for the girls and now even myself have been blessed with a huge amount of really nice dress clothes for work! our needs are being met! God is faithful and we are so glad that people have been obedient towards us.
Shash said…
I'm the same way with clothes too, the Bible says, what you sow you will reap.

Just to expand on something though...

Scripture talks about 5 different areas/examples of giving, represented and repeated in both Old and New Testaments of which tithing is only 1.

Apostolic Giving
Alms Giving
General lifestyle of generosity

Each of these have a specific godly purpose in both Old and New.

Rather than a super long comment, I'm going to post the remainder on my blog.

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